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  #256  
Old 26-09-2018, 21:45
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There was a Tolerate demo you know, and the way Nicky describes it in the following makes me want to hear it more than any of the others, https://www.nme.com/news/music/manic...s-tour-2215695
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  #257  
Old 26-09-2018, 23:52
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https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...reet-preachers

Interesting read about the making of tolerate.
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  #258  
Old 27-09-2018, 06:12
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https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...reet-preachers

Interesting read about the making of tolerate.
That's a good read! Quite nerdy in parts, but you get a feel for how the song came together (and why there might not be a proper demo, as such...)
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  #259  
Old 27-09-2018, 07:57
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One thing that has always interested me about artists (whether they be writers, painters, musicians etc.) is whether they can just 'switch off' from completed works or if perceived errors or potential corrections are a constant source of annoyance to them.

I heard Nicky Wire say years before the SATT re-release that replacing Underdogs with Welcome to the Dead Zone would have made the album complete, so it was no real surprise when it happened. I don't think it really worked though and the alternative track listing in the notes would work better.
Yeah, I find that interesting too and like Routine Builder posted before, how many changes can you make to an album (or any other piece of art for that matter) before it becomes something else? As far as switching off from completed works go, they can be very quick to drop stuff from the setlists. Lifeblood and Journal being the biggest ones for different reasons. Lifeblood was a relative critical and commercial failure and difficult era. Journal, I remember reading loads at the time about how they saw it as a complete work, hence the album gigs on its tour. Just reading through setlist.fm, looks iike there's only been four performances of Jackie Collins in 7 years and that's it for the album. Shame, really.

Anyway, digressed again. I suspect James is more likely to be bothered about things not being right as he sees it. Bless him, that Hammersmith opening night for Postcards when he fucked up a couple of times, I bet he's still beating himself up about it now. I don't remember hearing Nicky say that about Underdogs/Welcome To The Dead Zone but can certainly believe it. I'm not sure myself either, maybe it's a familiarity thing and if I'd heard the reissue before the original, Underdogs would sound out of place.
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  #260  
Old 29-09-2018, 13:44
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I remember the various Nirvana/Jeff Buckley releases and the accompanying arguments over the rights and wrongs though in those cases they be dead.....thus causing so many of the arguments. Not with the dead no.

I can see the point with some albums that have long stood the test of time and been such a huge influence but anniversarying everything and adding in anything you can find from that era and throwing it in a box painting it purple and selling it at some huge price seems a bit much.....because its only really the fans that will buy it....rather than say just re-mastering/releasing/publicising and marking the anniversary of an album
All fair points. Another thought here is that (although I know some don't like the maxed out new versions,) until now, it's been possible to soup up the sound of an older album from back in the day. With new digital recording tools, any album from pre-mid 90's (in theory) should see significant improvements as a remastered version. But I'm not sure whether those same improvements will be available (say) 20 years from today, as everything is compressed to hell and digitally controlled anyway.

I think another factor is that the current generation of older bands also coincides with the ability for the music industry to shift physical CD's in the form of fancy box-sets. We don't know yet, but it'd be interesting to see if the current generation will have that attachment to physical releases in the future (which it's possible they don't.) So I think if there's a reason behind it - I'd imagine that the labels are keen to make the money while fans will still pay for it, hence a re-release of almost everything that had more than 5 fans.
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  #261  
Old 29-09-2018, 13:53
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Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke View Post
Yeah, I find that interesting too and like Routine Builder posted before, how many changes can you make to an album (or any other piece of art for that matter) before it becomes something else? As far as switching off from completed works go, they can be very quick to drop stuff from the setlists. I don't remember hearing Nicky say that about Underdogs/Welcome To The Dead Zone but can certainly believe it. I'm not sure myself either, maybe it's a familiarity thing and if I'd heard the reissue before the original, Underdogs would sound out of place.
Making music is a funny thing. You write a song, and you basically think it's the best thing since sliced bread (otherwise you'd never release anything.) But like any other art, once it's out there it's not really yours and your view of it gets warped. Often bands get "demo-itis" in that they love the demos more because they capture the raw, exciting moment of creation. But more often, you just get bored of it after your work on it is done. You're looking for the next challenge.

That (I think) partly explains how a fan who is just getting into a song might disagree with a band member who hates something they've just released. In their world, this tune is just an attempt to beat their last effort, and chances are it's been in their head for years before we get to hear it. That's what it was like for me anyway, so although it annoys me (and many others) that there are some amazing ignored songs in the Manics cannon, I can empathise with the apathy of the band towards certain tracks.
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  #262  
Old 30-09-2018, 09:27
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Making music is a funny thing. You write a song, and you basically think it's the best thing since sliced bread (otherwise you'd never release anything.) But like any other art, once it's out there it's not really yours and your view of it gets warped. Often bands get "demo-itis" in that they love the demos more because they capture the raw, exciting moment of creation. But more often, you just get bored of it after your work on it is done. You're looking for the next challenge.

That (I think) partly explains how a fan who is just getting into a song might disagree with a band member who hates something they've just released. In their world, this tune is just an attempt to beat their last effort, and chances are it's been in their head for years before we get to hear it. That's what it was like for me anyway, so although it annoys me (and many others) that there are some amazing ignored songs in the Manics cannon, I can empathise with the apathy of the band towards certain tracks.
Yeah, this is why I love that they've been releasing so many demos, we're getting spoilt. I get that though, they've developed the song forwards and we're going backwards and it's not gonna be the same. Who knows, maybe they'll stick demos out as a teaser one day before the finished song, I'd love that actually. It's great to be able to listen to a work in progress once you've heard the final release but to hear the demo first and take that journey could be very interesting.

I'd love to know more about when they realised Rewind The Film and Futurology were two separate albums rather than the double they'd spoke about going for.. Decent chance there are Futurology songs that are older than Rewind The Film ones.
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  #263  
Old 30-09-2018, 11:50
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So any specification on this? Will a remastered Nobody Loved You be on disc 2? That'd be totally okey dokey with me, could just swap it out then.

Actually, I've even thought about a tracklist that has both of them there. Since penultimate or third to last is now the so called official positioning of Prologue on TIMTTY, why not? I already see how badly it fits if it's alone -- after Black Dog and before SYMM, some inexplicable baggy freakout. (The rawk chorus of Nobody Loved You works in the otherwise tender tracklist because its verses are so sparse and slow, no such connecting element in Prologue). But! If Nobody Loved You has prepared the ground for higher energy with it's final chorus, Prologue follows quite well actually. The album has a pretty good degree of eclectics musically so, if introduced by something also rocky, ithis baggy eridness works quite nice.

The master on Prologue, however, is quite unfitting as is now. I sure hope they've made the song sound a bit thicker and smoother with the new master.

However -- if Nobody Loved You remaster is not on disk two, then Prologue alone sounds...well, pretty stupid there. Not as weird as Welcome To The Dead Zone, a song with absolutely no intro, just splashing onto the scene as track two of Tigers. But still pretty odd. Just as odd as if Socialist Serenade just started wacking around. SYMM follows quite nicely from Prologue however, musically at least -- with its jagged ominous landscape. Only problem is, as of now, SYMM's master and mix are from another planet technically. It's absolutely ace while Prologue sounds like an okay b side.

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  #264  
Old 30-09-2018, 13:46
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Originally Posted by Marat Sar View Post
So any specification on this? Will a remastered Nobody Loved You be on disc 2? That'd be totally okey dokey with me, could just swap it out then.

Actually, I've even thought about a tracklist that has both of them there. Since penultimate or third to last is now the so called official positioning of Prologue on TIMTTY, why not? I already see how badly it fits if it's alone -- after Black Dog and before SYMM, some inexplicable baggy freakout. (The rawk chorus of Nobody Loved You works in the otherwise tender tracklist because its verses are so sparse and slow, no such connecting element in Prologue). But! If Nobody Loved You has prepared the ground for higher energy with it's final chorus, Prologue follows quite well actually. The album has a pretty good degree of eclectics musically so, if introduced by something also rocky, ithis baggy eridness works quite nice.

The master on Prologue, however, is quite unfitting as is now. I sure hope they've made the song sound a bit thicker and smoother with the new master.

However -- if Nobody Loved You remaster is not on disk two, then Prologue alone sounds...well, pretty stupid there. Not as weird as Welcome To The Dead Zone, a song with absolutely no intro, just splashing onto the scene as track two of Tigers. But still pretty odd. Just as odd as if Socialist Serenade just started wacking around. SYMM follows quite nicely from Prologue however, musically at least -- with its jagged ominous landscape. Only problem is, as of now, SYMM's master and mix are from another planet technically. It's absolutely ace while Prologue sounds like an okay b side.
As far as I read Nobody Loved You is to be on the second disc. Just another post of mine marking time until the tracklisting gets released. I wonder if it's all done and dusted or a few tweaks left to do to prepare the box?
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  #265  
Old 30-09-2018, 23:28
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All fair points. Another thought here is that (although I know some don't like the maxed out new versions,) until now, it's been possible to soup up the sound of an older album from back in the day. With new digital recording tools, any album from pre-mid 90's (in theory) should see significant improvements as a remastered version. But I'm not sure whether those same improvements will be available (say) 20 years from today, as everything is compressed to hell and digitally controlled anyway.

I think another factor is that the current generation of older bands also coincides with the ability for the music industry to shift physical CD's in the form of fancy box-sets. We don't know yet, but it'd be interesting to see if the current generation will have that attachment to physical releases in the future (which it's possible they don't.) So I think if there's a reason behind it - I'd imagine that the labels are keen to make the money while fans will still pay for it, hence a re-release of almost everything that had more than 5 fans.
Both points true. The interest in vinyl maybe shows there is still a desire to hold and own a physical copy even in this digital age so the interest may continue for longer than expected .... giving the labels reasons to keep releasing physical 'stuff' but more and more for a very niche market rather than mainstream and at a more and more niche price

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Just another post of mine marking time until the tracklisting gets released. I wonder if it's all done and dusted or a few tweaks left to do to prepare the box?
They're looking for the sellotape as we type...
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  #266  
Old 01-10-2018, 18:51
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Both points true. The interest in vinyl maybe shows there is still a desire to hold and own a physical copy even in this digital age so the interest may continue for longer than expected .... giving the labels reasons to keep releasing physical 'stuff' but more and more for a very niche market rather than mainstream and at a more and more niche price
Yup. Also, I'm interested if there's a return swing of the pendulum. For example, with E-books, people said physical books were on the way out. More recently though, it seems like we've arrived at a happy medium. So yeah, I do think that even as a novelty for those who didn't buy records, there is a chance for a physical thing to remain attractive, perhaps more so to generations who grew up without them.
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  #267  
Old 03-10-2018, 12:32
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I wish they'd just hurry up and announce something. This is all getting just a little bit boring now waiting for this announcement.
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  #268  
Old 03-10-2018, 12:34
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I wish they'd just hurry up and announce something. This is all getting just a little bit boring now waiting for this announcment.
Agreed. It is also irksome that nothing was announced around the time of its anniversary. An opportunity missed PR-wise.
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  #269  
Old 04-10-2018, 17:50
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It almost seems as though more was planned initially and then it just didn’t happen, and this is now a bit of an afterthought. Maybe after a tough period Nicky had other things on his mind so they didn’t make as big an event of it as they were initially planning.
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  #270  
Old 04-10-2018, 21:01
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They could just wait until next year and throw in the Millenium Stadium gig and then just play the one show there.
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