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  #196  
Old 19-09-2018, 11:58
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Elizabeth M Elizabeth M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almostfamous View Post
Sadly inevitable but I really, really wish they hadn't tinkered with the original tracklist. It won't have the same old friend feeling. It's the equivalent of botox or something. Jus' like the SATT reissue felt weirdly unnatural. "Nobody Loves You" is a banger and its place on the record sparks a firework release after several introspective mid-tempo pieces. Messin' with the space-time continuum is always a no-no, just ask Doc Brown.

Bah, it's Wire's World. Party on, excellent.

PS: Scary thought if "The Tracklist Tinkerers" come for Lifeblood they'll have to prise it from my cold, dead hands.
Don’t worry. There’s not the slightest chance of them wanting to draw attention to the existence of Lifeblood with a reissue!
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  #197  
Old 19-09-2018, 13:23
tomd2103 tomd2103 is offline
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Originally Posted by Marconi Delorian View Post
I'd rather they didn't do this track list alteration - I think it's been mentioned before, but when Suede re-released their previous albums, Brett did a list with an alternative track list that swapped some tracks out for b-sides - this would be a much better idea as the whole album could be changed then, rather than just a straight swap - Prologue isn't going to fit in that slot any better now than it did 20 years ago. It needs to start the album off, which then changes the whole tone of everything. I did a re-arrange inspired by their regret of not including PTH and the idea that Be Natural would have been the lead single:

1) Prologue to History
2) Be Natural
3) Black Holes for the Young
4) Tolerate
5) Black Dog on my Shoulder
6) Born a Girl
7) SYMM
8) YSTSFMH
9) Tsunami
10) My Little Empire
11) Read for Drowning
12) Nobody Loved You (I like that this mirrors All Surface No Feeling in both structure and track position)
13) The Everlasting (much better fit as a closer than an opener!)

As you can see, it's a radical alteration and much more upbeat (as far as it can be in this period!). I still love the original though and don't see how it needs much of a re-master - you can hear the delicate intricacies and layers perfectly well, so I hope it isn't a case of turning all the levels up and making it wear on the ear.
I like an album to open with an upbeat song as well and think Prologue to History followed by Montana '78 would have been a great start to an album, but I do think that The Everlasting works as the opener for TIMT. I have always wondered if Prologue could have followed The Everlasting with Tolerate following that and the rest of the album pretty much staying the same.

I still like TIMT, but I do think it gets a bit 'bogged down' in the second half of the album. Most of the songs are in that half of the album all quite downbeat (not a bad thing) and are also quite long. I've never really been a fan of I'm Not Working as it is TIMT and feel it takes any momentum and flow out of the album (I think Be Natural is the same though I like the song), although I wouldn't have minded a a shortened instrumental version perhaps. As others have said, unless it is for particular personal reasons (which would be understandable) I can't see why Nobody Loved You would be left off. For me, it would have been the ideal closing track with SYMM being left off.

Therefore, I would have liked to have seen something like:

1. The Everlasting
2. Prologue to History
3. If You Tolerate This
4. You Stole the Sun
5. Not Ready For Drowning
6. Tsunami
7. My Little Empire
8. I'm Not Working (short instrumental)
9. Tender and Tired
10. Born a Girl
11. Black Dog on My Shoulder
12. Nobody Loved You
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  #198  
Old 19-09-2018, 13:36
tomd2103 tomd2103 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke View Post
Yeah, like every other mug I'll pick up a box set..

Baffled by the talk of swapping Prologue To History for Nobody Loved You though. I probably said the same thing on the thread for the Send Away The Tigers reissue - when Suede gave their first five albums the reissue treatment, the liner notes had an alternative tracklisting in and I loved that. I can't think off the top of my head of any reissues that have omitted tracks from them and can only think of a couple of albums that have added tracks as part of the album for later issues.

I dunno, I understand the appeal to rewrite history. They're a highly self-critical band, there are bound to be loads of instances throughout their career of stuff they wish they'd done differently or not at all etc. Underdogs, I could kind of understand, it was dropped like a hot rock and get the impression that generally fans are much more favourable of Welcome To The Dead Zone than that. Haven't listened to the reissue that many times but it catches you out. Nobody Loved You, I don't recall the band being disparaging about it at all? Plus it was put out as a single in Japan. I don't get it... Don't know if this reissue is likely to be in the vein of the Holy Bible and Everything Must Go box sets or more like the Send Away The Tigers and National Treasures 2cd/dvd things. Either way, you'd expect there to be enough room for Prologue...
One thing that has always interested me about artists (whether they be writers, painters, musicians etc.) is whether they can just 'switch off' from completed works or if perceived errors or potential corrections are a constant source of annoyance to them.

I heard Nicky Wire say years before the SATT re-release that replacing Underdogs with Welcome to the Dead Zone would have made the album complete, so it was no real surprise when it happened. I don't think it really worked though and the alternative track listing in the notes would work better.
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  #199  
Old 19-09-2018, 13:41
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Suicide Aldi Suicide Aldi is offline
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Why could they not have ditched Im not working instead? That one really is shit.
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  #200  
Old 19-09-2018, 14:10
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I've really enjoyed people's opinions on this so I thought I'd bung my own in here. Personally I fucking love Prologue To History (but maybe BECAUSE it has b-side status). I mean, if it was an album track or a single, it would kind of get overlooked and lost in the sea of all the stone cold classic bangers...

As some others have said, don't mess with the tracklisting: history is history and people can make their own playlists. Although, saying that, Welcome to the Deadzone is clearly superior to Underdogs but, in my opnion, a reissue isn't a reissue if you've fucked with the original tracklisting; it then becomes a compilation.

TIMTTMY came into my life when I was 17 so it still has fond memories for me although it is far from my favourite Manics album. I will always love The Holy Bible the most but Truth was my first Manics tour and my second ever gig (Catatonia supporting).

I guess I'm rambling a little but just wanted to add my thoughts as I have enjoyed reading this thread.
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  #201  
Old 19-09-2018, 16:57
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Porco Porco is online now
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Originally Posted by UEF View Post
The song isn't being left off entirely - it's on the 2nd disc. Presumably remastered, but who knows? I can never hear the difference with Manics stuff anyway.
Hmm, you could be right, but I read it as meaning it would only be a demo of NLY, like they did with Underdogs.

"We’ve put [fan favourite B-side] ‘Prologue To History’ on the album now and kicked off ‘Nobody Loved You’. We’ve moved that onto disc two with a great demo that we’ve found."

It's not very clear if he means the original track PLUS a great demo of the same song, or that they've just 'moved' the *song* (as opposed to the original album's recorded version) of NLY AS a demo.

"With" could kind of mean either... and Underdogs is the worrying precedent here. I hope it's the former (album version *plus* demo) and you're right.
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  #202  
Old 19-09-2018, 18:24
Glyn Glyn is offline
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Christ, yeah gave the album a listen in full today for the first time in ages and there is just no way that someone can listen to I'm Not Working and then decide that Nobody Loved You is a weak link.
In other news I had forgotten just how amazing that solo is on Valley Boy, it could be feedback but I like to think that is a celebratory 'whoop' at the end of it.The solo on SYMM just about beats it for me but it's a close call.
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  #203  
Old 19-09-2018, 20:02
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Europa Gluten Free Europa Gluten Free is offline
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They've clearly decided to take off NLY due to the explicit connection to Richey. And also, quite frankly, it's something else to talk about on the promo tour they will do culminating on the Sunday or Saturday or whatever day Kitchen show.

Whatever. I'm just looking forward to the remaster, the nice glossy booklet, the extras, and the shows. More than the EMG20 re-reissue. And maybe even more than THB20 re-issue...

THB10 is still my favourite re-issue though. It just felt like a block of culture and history and genius in my hand.
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  #204  
Old 19-09-2018, 20:39
Phil C Phil C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSPKYE View Post
Don't really see the controversy in the potential tracklisting change, Prologue is more than worthy of it's place on the album, just see it as a re-imagining as with the SATT10 release.
The controversy isn't that Prologue is being added, it's that Nobody Loved You shouldn't be being removed. If a single disc version of this re-issue is released the old version with NLY will probably disappear - and that will be a shame.
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  #205  
Old 19-09-2018, 20:39
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Marconi Delorian Marconi Delorian is offline
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I'm Not Working is the centre-piece of the album as it is!
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We are still waiting on this section, it's gonna be badass. But while you wait perhaps you would care to peruse the lyrics for 'Underdogs' and 'Your Love Is Not Enough', from the album 'Send Away The Tigers'.
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  #206  
Old 19-09-2018, 20:44
Phil C Phil C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free View Post
They've clearly decided to take off NLY due to the explicit connection to Richey.
Er...no, there's no 'clearly' about it. They've written songs about Richey since and never had a problem with playing them live. Why people think they know what the band's thinking is when they've not said anything baffles me. Ocean Spray is about James' mother dying, Hold Me Like A Heaven is about Nick's mother dying, As Holy As The Soil is about friends dying, Cardiff Afterlife and Walk Me To The Bridge refer to Richey...but Nobody Loved You has 'clearly' been dropped because it's about Richey?
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  #207  
Old 19-09-2018, 21:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Question: How many songs does it take to drop for an album to stop being itself and become something else?
This is a fair question. I think the question in my head here is about the subtraction. Is a book the same book if you remove a chapter and add a new one in its place?

To me taking a song off is a bit sketchy. Adding one not so much.

Albums get new songs all the time. Bonus tracks. Imports. Deluxe editions. This seems to be MSP's This is my truth tell me yours, the "soz we also forgot this one awesome song, it was a B-side but we screwed up back in the day here it is now tho" Edition.
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  #208  
Old 19-09-2018, 23:44
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I’m reminded in a way of the forthcoming ‘remake’ of David Bowie’s Never Let Me Down, which was Bowie’s idea before he died: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...-album-702189/

Yeah OK, that’s probably Bowie’s worst album, but it’s the same principle of messing with the past. Rightly or wrongly that approach kind of suits the Manics - they’ve always been very nostalgic and very anti-nostalgic at the same time.
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  #209  
Old 20-09-2018, 01:08
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I would just like to stick up for I'm Not Working and Be Natural.

They were among my least favourite songs on Truth when it came out (I was 18) but I LOVE them now.

Prologue is obviously an incredible song and is definitely good enough for the record...but putting into the album now just doesn't sit well with me.
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  #210  
Old 20-09-2018, 06:09
Manic Street Lurker Manic Street Lurker is offline
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My rewrite history tracklisting would add three b-sides, remove four album tracks and look like this:

1. Prologue to History
2. If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next
3. You Stole the Sun From My Heart
4. Ready For Drowning
5. Tsunami
6. My Little Empire
7. Black Holes For The Young
8. Born A Girl
9. Black Dog On My Shoulder
10. Montana/Autumn/78
11. SYMM
12. The Everlasting

Seems to work in my opinion which is of no consequence at all. Prologue doesn't stand out as much when there's another song that sounds like it on the album. Black Holes sounds extremely potent after My Little Empire and launches 'side two' beautifully. Don't know if I will buy this or not as I listen to all my music on my phone and don't even have a CD player anymore. I sold my £50 Generation Terrorists box a while ago and don't miss it, mainly got it for the remastered b-sides, which I ripped and weren't available on other editions but didn't bother with the EMG or Tigers re-issues. Was a nice package but wasn't exactly looking at it on a daily basis.
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